Ammanie Daters … or Flirters??
Yesterday, I went out with a friend of mine to one of the prominent coffee shops in Mecca Mall. You see, we like going there because it has large windows and we can sit inside while breathing fresh air and they make great coffee, so there we were on one of our favorite tables and peacefully munching our dinner when a guy and two girls came in and sat right in front of us.
Now, there isn’t anything strange about this scene as many people go out in groups and eat or drink; this is really not the issue. What was really obvious is that the guy formed a couple with one of the girls and the other girl was there like a third wheel, but that also is normal … I mean you can go out with your girlfriend and her friend might/can tag along, so we are still OK …
Some time went by and then we noticed that the girl was all touchy feely with the guy; she would put her hand over his, or just makes sure that she touches all the skin on his arm when she extends her hand to get a tissue or whatever … it was too obvious that we could not NOT notice, but we brushed it off …
After a while, the guy started touching back, by pinching a cheek here or holding a hand there … then she would sneak her hand under his arm in an attempt to hold his other hand or just touch it lightly … but we said to ourselves, well; maybe we are just too old fashioned or maybe this is the new trend in dating in Amman … who knows?
Then we noticed that there was a whole other scene under the table … they were seriously all over each other … she would but her feet over his, or he would touch her leg, or she would cross her legs only to touch him on the knee with her foot … and I was “this” close to shouting: get a room, will ya?!!!
Not only is this action tasteless and shameless, but it is also strange to happen in a public place in a mall … I am not that naive and I know that there are places where such things happen but certainly not in a coffee shop in a mall with very clear sharp lights and while you are seated very close to the next table … I mean come on! When did we lose all manners and morals … will someone tell me: is this normal???
What is happening to this generation? Even if they were engaged or married, does this justify such behavior? Is flirtation a part of dating these days? Have we become like western countries where the date should end with a kiss at the door? If this girl was seen by her father, brother or even her cousin while she was all over that guy, would she continue what she was doing without even blinking or would she worry that there would be severe consequences? If that guy saw his sister or even cousin in the position of the girl who was with him, I wonder how he would react!!
In a community that is drowning in double standards and culture of shame, it comes as a shock that we see such behaviors in public places which makes me wonder, did people stop caring suddenly? Or did the standards change? Or are we getting into a new era that has no limits or boundaries???? 
August 28th, 2007 at 1:34 am
if its in wakeem restaurant i think i saw them, kids right?
……… KIDS?????
I don’t know if i agree with u on this or not, but i think its cute, at least they’re not having car sex like what i saw in abdoun under a certain bridge, to see up to 10 cars with kids humping in them now thats scary
I agree that the moral standers have declined in Amman this summer tremendously.
thx for the share
August 28th, 2007 at 11:29 am
Let me get the story straight. Who was flirting? the guy and his girlfriend or the guy and the other girl. This is vital info, as the story can mean two different things.
I was checking out some Egyptian films from the 70′s the other day, where actors actually French kiss…. it makes me wonder if these ‘limits and boundaries’ are just going back to the way they were before. You make it seem as though they were taking their clothes off right before your eyes!
August 28th, 2007 at 1:31 pm
hi wallah every thing u said is true it’s getting so scary there in Amman these days girls they just don’t care any more for guys they never cared but girls that’s to much to bare or handle OK lets say the don’t care about there family to see them in such position but what about god don’t they think that he is watching them ,Allah yastoor 3ala aljmae3
August 28th, 2007 at 3:02 pm
حتى الحب بقى حرام في البلاد دي… سيبي الناس تفرفش!
August 28th, 2007 at 3:19 pm
انتي ليش زعلانة؟
هاي تعشيتي و حضرتي فيلم ببلاش
انا ليش ما بيصير معي هيك يا ربي؟
حبيبتي خالدة..تغلبيش حالك و تقولي شو صار بالاخلاق و القيم لانه هاي كلمات في بعض الناس عمرهم ما سمعوا فيها
اللي بيحب وحدة بحترمها
و الاحترام برأيي اهم من الحب
الله يعلم شو بيصير بالمطاعم اللي اضائتها خافتة(قال يعني رومانتك دينر) و اللي شراشف طاولاتها واصلة الارض
كل واحد بيشيل قربة مخرومة بتشر ع راسه
August 29th, 2007 at 2:12 am
I’m afraid I’m with Amjad on this one.
Cuddling, hugging, holding hands, playing footsie in public aren’t indecent in themselves. They’re merely affectionate gestures, but then I don’t have religion to use as a moral compass. I make my own rules.
What do you think would have happened if you told the management. Would they have asked the couple to leave, or you to put up with it ? Mecca mall claims to be “family oriented” so it would have been interesting to find out.
August 29th, 2007 at 4:23 am
Amjad …
No it was not Wakeem and no they were not kids
I don’t think that it is cute to take place in a coffee shop right in the middle and in Mecca Mall no less … especially that the guy looks 30 something …
Ammanite,
The guy was flirting with his own GF and the other girl was there for no obvious reason
… trust me if you were there, you would have seen it as vulgar too
Noor,
I completely agree
Oula …
ولك والله اشتقت لك كتير … آه والله الحب اللي هيك لازم يتحرم في كل مكان ومش بس البلاد دي
Mala2e6 …
والله كلامك جواهر … اللي بيحب واحدة بيحترمها وانا ما شفت أي احترام من جهة هدا الشب لهديك البنت .. كان كتير عيب والله
Hani …
That’s such an interesting thought … I wonder what they would have said but I think I can predict that they will do absolutely nothing … I agree that these gestures in themselves are not indecent … but they are not decent as well and specially in a community like ours … there are limits .. there should be limits … you know how I think of these things? I would look at this girl as if she was my own daughter or sister and how I would react if I saw her in that situation and then I would judge if it is acceptable or not … to me … it is absolutely NOT ACCEPTABLE
August 29th, 2007 at 8:22 pm
khalida my cousin kissed the bride on the cheek on the wedding night,and that was the talk of the family maybe even the 3asheera
the rest of the guys would tease any new groom by reminding him of maher story.
probably what are you saying means nothing to some people but to others it means a lot.
August 30th, 2007 at 1:50 am
Zaid …
I agree with you on the concept .. however; this was a public place and I found the behavior to be so tasteless and vulgar … I don’t know about every one else
August 30th, 2007 at 6:35 am
Actually you seem to be still living in another world!
Thank God people are breaking the backward traditional rules of showing affection for each other. What’s worng with a girl touching the hands of her boyfriend in public? THIS IS CALLED LOVE! There is no shame in that! What is shameful is us trying to stop others from enjoying themselves!
When you are in love, you would want to touch your lover anywhere you go to. Others can just turn there faces if they dont like what they see, or they are not familiar with!
Besides, morals are relative. I find your critisizing them a bit lower in moral terms of what they were doing!
August 30th, 2007 at 6:55 am
Observer,
Maybe I am living in another world … but it is still my right to express my opinion about what I like or I don’t like for that matter … just like ranting about the heavy traffic or bad drivers or anything …
What I saw was not just showing affection in a simple form … it was way over and way exaggerated … and that is why I am criticizing … and I think I can tell the difference between love and other things … I AM NOT THAT STUPID
Whatever the case is … I do not think that I said anything that calls for you to accuse me of having lower morals than anyone … and as morals are relative .. behaviors must be relative to the communities … especially when we are living in a rather conservative community like Jordan
I do not like to see my sister in that position and I would not allow myself to be in it as well even if I was heads over heels in love with the guy … holding hands is fine .. but having public foreplay is certainly not .. but that’s my opinion … you do not have to like it .. but you do not have the right to tell me that I have low morals ..
August 31st, 2007 at 1:40 am
Actually I didnt say that you have low morals. What I said that I find calling people immoral for showing affection in public is a lower moral behaviour than what they were doing.
You certainly are entitled to your opinion, but when you give yourself the right to call on people for your moral standard, you should also give others the right to call you on their own standard.
You questioned where are the girl’s brother and father! like if you are calling them to discipline her and dominate her freedom while she is a grown up adult, at a time we are fighting for women independence and calling for eliminating honor crimes that results of such mentality of thinking by connecting a woman sexual behaviour with the family honor.
You may not allow yourself to be in such position, but you certainly don’t have the right to forbide other people doing so including your own sister. Dislike it as much as you want. but dont give yourself the right that you refuse to give others.
If jordan community is a true conservative one, you wouldnt see such behaviours bursting. We are certainly moveing on, and things are changing. You better get used to it.
September 1st, 2007 at 4:27 am
Observer,
“Actually I didnt say that you have low morals. What I said that I find calling people immoral for showing affection in public is a lower moral behaviour than what they were doing.”
Who said anything about showing affection? these guys were all over each other in a public foreplay scene .. and to think that I have lower morals than that … well .. it bothers me
“You certainly are entitled to your opinion, but when you give yourself the right to call on people for your moral standard, you should also give others the right to call you on their own standard.”
I am talking about the public standards … or has there been new announcements that people can do whatever they want in public places and I don’t know about it?
“You questioned where are the girl’s brother and father! like if you are calling them to discipline her and dominate her freedom while she is a grown up adult, at a time we are fighting for women independence and calling for eliminating honor crimes that results of such mentality of thinking by connecting a woman sexual behaviour with the family honor.”
I never implied anything of what you are saying here … I was simply wondering IF she was seen by a male relative would she continue doing what she is doing … and if the same guy saw his female relative in the same situation .. what would he have done … I am wondering because I know that we did not reach this stage of liberty and openness … and by the way … sexual behaviors do not belong in public places no matter how modernized we were … such behaviors have special places and coffee shops are not one of them … I did not even mention honor, not one time … I am talking about a behavior that is out of place … even etiquette views such things as tasteless when they are out of time and place …
“You may not allow yourself to be in such position, but you certainly don’t have the right to forbide other people doing so including your own sister. Dislike it as much as you want. but dont give yourself the right that you refuse to give others.”
I would certainly do ANY action if I see my sister in such position .. I would at least advise her and explain to her what my opinion is because this falls in my duty as her sister … I should care about her and about what she does … I may not be able to forbid her but still I would get my point across …
“If jordan community is a true conservative one, you wouldnt see such behaviours bursting. We are certainly moveing on, and things are changing. You better get used to it.”
That is exactly why I wrote the post; I am wondering if this is the norm these days and if you had read my last paragraphs, you would have figured this out before rushing to attack me instead as the backward immoral person you think I am … Again … I was not talking about public affection … this was way beyond … maybe if I had taken a picture of the “under the table” action, you would have seen this differently
Just out of curiosity; in your own opinion, where is the limit and where should we draw the line? or should there be no boundaries at all?
September 2nd, 2007 at 12:02 am
khalida,
I may have implied of a backward mentality in your post, but I haven’t accused you of having a low morals, even in my standards.
I understand how it bothers you me saying that the way you talked about these couple sounds to me a less moral act than what they were doing, but you would get a better perception if you realize that I don’t consider their behaviour anyway morally wrong. Which means that your post is less morally (in my opinion) than a good moral practice. Understand what i mean? You get offended because you still consider their behaviour to be very bad morally.
Now it depends of what you define a foreplay. So what if a 2 people grabbed their each other hands in public? or even touch their each other legs under the table? They are showing their affection for each other.
To answer your question, I dont think there should be a limit on people’s freedom. We can always turn our faces the other side if we have seen something we dont like. We cant ask peopel to stop certain behaviour that doesnt really hurt us because our morals dont comply with.
September 2nd, 2007 at 12:39 am
Observer,
I understand now what you want to say and I am not against public affection but I am against exaggerating that … this was a coffee shop that has kids and children and these guys were not holding hands or touching legs … her feet were in a place they should not be (in public) … she can do whatever but to be a bit discreet and consider that it is still early and there are children … even in the west, they pay attention to such details …
If you think that it is OK for two people to grope each other and go beyond touching hands and legs .. then that’s a difference between us that we both have to respect … but let me assure to you … I am not talking about a simple act of love … this was something that belonged in a bedroom
September 2nd, 2007 at 5:21 am
“Some time went by and then we noticed that the girl was all touchy feely with the guy; she would put her hand over his, or just makes sure that she touches all the skin on his arm when she extends her hand to get a tissue or whatever … it was too obvious that we could not NOT notice, but we brushed it off …
After a while, the guy started touching back, by pinching a cheek here or holding a hand there … then she would sneak her hand under his arm in an attempt to hold his other hand or just touch it lightly … but we said to ourselves, well; maybe we are just too old fashioned or maybe this is the new trend in dating in Amman … who knows”
Actually i based my comment on your describtion
.
You said that you are not against public affection, but against exaggerating. I am not sure who would define exaggeration and how different exaggeration is to you than to other people. I guess that you are entitled to your opinion, and I am to mine.
Anyway, as you said, it is a difference between that we have to respect….
September 2nd, 2007 at 9:03 am
Observer,
I guess I was a bit modest in my description
I agree with you and I respect your view
Thank you for the challenging debate … I enjoyed it
September 7th, 2007 at 11:50 pm
Khalidah,
Saw this on Dave’s blog and came on over. Quite the conversation going on. Being from the US, this type of behavior is clearly much more common. In fact, however, there is the same ongoing debate about where the line is. And, it’s one of most frequently asked questions of etiquette gurus. I can’t speak to the morality of the activity (as that is left to each person’s own belief system), but it IS just plain rude! Oh, and we Americans are more likely to just be rude back and invite them to get a room… Teehee.
September 8th, 2007 at 2:14 am
“”this was a coffee shop that has kids and children and these guys were not holding hands or touching legs … her feet were in a place they should not be (in public)”"
Ummmmm. I take back what I said, that would be indecent !
September 9th, 2007 at 11:16 am
Personally, I’m more offended when I see people arguing and fighting in public… But hey, that’s just me…
September 9th, 2007 at 12:39 pm
[...] From prostitution and neighborhood sexual escapades (that are sometimes a little too public) to the changing art of flirting, the phenomenon has come to personify the sexual revolution Amman has been experiencing lately. In [...]
September 9th, 2007 at 4:09 pm
[...] From prostitution and neighborhood sexual escapades (that are sometimes a little too public) to the changing art of flirting, the phenomenon has come to personify the sexual revolution Amman has been experiencing lately. In [...]
October 24th, 2007 at 6:32 pm
Hmm…
Then I have a question for you, Angelita. What do you think could be the worst possible outcome of two people flirting together in public? And to what extent could their actions damage the day to day lives of people around them?
July 26th, 2009 at 7:32 pm
This kind of behavior is unacceptable.Are you aware of if this is a common practice nowadays in Jordan?
I wonder what Kinzi would say about this behavior.She really cares about honor killings,and I don’t blame her,they should never take place.But does she know what actually is going on with the young Jordanian women.